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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:21:54 GMT -5
Originally posted by LDS Jedi
fellow Jedi;
I have come to understand restraint. Not just in the physical but also in other realms such as verbal, mental, and spiritual. I would like to pass this on to you as well, perhaps we could get some discussion going about this topic and its influences on other topics as well.
The following finds its roots in the Pilot episode of "Kung Fu". This is one of many scenes that is done as a flashback and one that offer's instruction. Visually you see a slow motion piece with a Master teaching his Students various Martial Arts movements with the Grand Master speaking as a voice over. From this we can learn the basis of what I will call the "Law of Restraint". The quote then is as follows:
* * * * * *
Perceive the way of nature and no force of man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on, avoid it. You do not have to stop force, it is easier to re-direct it. Learn more ways to preserve than to destroy.
Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill.
For all life is precious nor can any be replaced.
* * * * * *
This wisdom translates well to the understanding of the Force. A Jedi does not use the Force for attack, rather the Jedi will defend. As stated above, a Jedi will avoid rather than check and so on. When one is able to restrain their movements to the confines of compassion, then we may speak directly without being rude, we may block a punch without the intent of killing an opponant. A jedi will choose to avoid war in favour of peace and yet understand that if necessary a war may be fought. By implementing this "Law of Restraint" one who finds himself in confrontation will know that every precaution has been observed first.
I hope to see some discussion on this.. there is more that could be said, but I would like your input, your ideas and thoughts.[/i]
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:23:40 GMT -5
Originally posted by Icarus
I had a very tough "test" yesterday. It most definetly called for this "restraint". I cannot go into details, but it was very serious and could have repurcussions for years and years to come. It took more strength than I knew that I had. I began to breathe quickly and shake and anger and fear were boiling to the surface. I was literally "about to blow". Instead, I began to calm my breath, repeat the Code, and listen to the vibrations around me. I "redirected" the negative forces at work that I suddenly realized would only come to more negativity. I "blocked" that which could have done harm. I tried to be compassionate and listen to everyone there. I heard what they were saying-not just with my ears, but with my heart. I let the "powers that be" direct me. In the end, the situation is not completely resolved, but it has been guided to a solution. I feel that we are on the right track with this. I was terrified, but I restrained my emotions so that they would not get the better of me. I restrained my words so that they did not cause more problems. I restrained my actions so that no one got into "trouble". In other words, if I had not shown restraint, the matter would have blown up all around us and everyone involved would be in great despair this morning.
PS. I found it strange that for the first time in a long time that after I did the above, I was very calm. It almost scared me because I had not felt that way in so long.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:24:52 GMT -5
Originally posted by Jinsei
Everyone should learn to restrain themselves to a degree. Yesterday, we were at the doctor's office and our daughter was playing in a little boat-type playhouse. Some boy kept annoying her from outside of it, but she did something out of character and just kind of stared him down, occasionally giving him that "I'm gonna whoop you" laugh. Then, he pushed on the thing and made it move, so she ran outside of it and around to where he was (clearly with the intent of hitting him), but he ran to the safety of his parents... he was at least two years older than her.
She showed a great deal of restraint until the issue had been pressed too far and she was ready to show him that he'd overdone it.
Quote: In the end, the situation is not completely resolved, but it has been guided to a solution.
In a lot of cases, or most, you can't ever truly resolve a situation, but have to agree to just come to a solution that will end it. Often, that solution is to simply appologize, walk away, and leave it be.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:26:04 GMT -5
Originally posted by Hecate
How interesting that this should come up today! But aren't the best things always timely?
I tend not to see anyone or anything as an enemy. The only true enemy I could possibly have is myself, and a perception that there is anything separate from myself that I must need to attack or defend myself from.
In spiritual circles there is a great prevalence for those who misuse the mirror principal, that what we see or receive is simply a mirror of ourselves. In many ways I feel this is true, but only when we apply it to our own lessons. Telling someone else they are mirroring is to me to completely miss the point of the concept.
A friend raised this elswhere, somewhere I had not had much input of late, so I replied to her. I could see what she was saying and really reiterated her words in my own way. But hot on my heels came a scathing attack on me from someone I wasn't even aware of knowing, telling me I was responsible for every ill in the world virtually, that I must stop what I was doing at once, stop hurting everyone and so on. Also telling me they knew I was going to react to what they were saying and making sure I got it by im'ing it to me too. It was an essay of hatred.
But I was just bemused, a bit taken aback I must admit. I couldn't work out why they felt the need to do this. I mean sure, I'm not perfect, none of us are, but I'm hardly the devil incarnate. The law of restraint was needed, though actually I wouldn't have known what to do other than that anyway.
My response to them?
'Huh?'
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:28:21 GMT -5
Originally posted by Icarus
"In a lot of cases, or most, you can't ever truly resolve a situation, but have to agree to just come to a solution that will end it. Often, that solution is to simply appologize, walk away, and leave it be."-(Korakaan)
Well, I really do not see this as ending well-if it does end. I don't think that it is anything that could be handled with an apology either. (Not that I would object to anyone's apology, it just doesn't apply here.) So, I can only wish that it were that easy to fix.
Oh! And "You Go Korakaan's daughter! You Go Girl!"
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:30:27 GMT -5
Originally posted by Adona Mara
Hecate said: Quote: A friend raised this elswhere, somewhere I had not had much input of late, so I replied to her. I could see what she was saying and really reiterated her words in my own way. But hot on my heels came a scathing attack on me from someone I wasn't even aware of knowing, telling me I was responsible for every ill in the world virtually, that I must stop what I was doing at once, stop hurting everyone and so on. Also telling me they knew I was going to react to what they were saying and making sure I got it by im'ing it to me too. It was an essay of hatred.
I think I've met this person -- at least I've had that sort of thing happen. It's a little disconcerting, but when an "attack" comes from out of the blue my first reaction is usually puzzlement. And, I have to admit, my first words are usually something like: "What's your problem?"
I do try not to do anything that would harm anyone -- "do unto others ..." and all that. But there are people who, for some reason I have no capacity to fathom, really enjoy hurting people if they can. When someone else is the target, I try to stand between them and their attacker. When I am the target, I do my best to follow the basic form of the precept that LDS Jedi laid out.
Thanks for that, by the way. I think you are right -- this is a good "code" for Jedi to keep in mind.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:39:30 GMT -5
Originally posted by HecateAdona said: Quote: Thanks. I suspect that often it's because they're hurting, and want to scapegoat or offload it onto someone else (which of course doesn't work at all in the long term, is like a drug, you have to do it over and over as the satisfaction wears off). It appears in this instance at least to be the case. But I also know that if you find yourself at the receiving end of this there's little point in saying anything. In fact the more you say, whatever it is, the more their belief is confirmed. I have no wish to harm anyone, because in harming them ultimately I harm myself, but I do know the Force seems to have set me up to be something of a catalyst, even if I do nothing, so I suppose these things are an inevitability I should be used to by now. Mostly it's a valuable gift to help others, but just sometimes it blows up in my face and I end up at the receiving end. But then again there's always more for me to learn too. LDS Jedi.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:40:58 GMT -5
Originally posted by Icarus
Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill.
avoid- do not get in the situation to start with, or try to find a peaceful way to end the conflict.
check- I would take "check" as to mean block, or prevent. Maybe just blocking a blow and then trying to communicate with the aggressor. This could be just getting out of the way, grabbing their hands as they "swing" at you, or actually just getting so close that they cannot do anything.
Hurt- Sometimes, a good smack to a sensitive-but not a serious chance of injury kind of place- can make people stop and listen. (Kind of like a "wake-up call") (Third-eye can work pretty well)
Maim- Worse case scenario. It is better to defend yourself to the best of your ability and still preserve life. In which case, you would have to know where and where not to strike.
Anyway, that is my interpretation.
Hope this is what you were looking for, my brother.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:42:10 GMT -5
Originally posted by LDS_Jedi
An excellent interpretation. Very similar to my own.
This one can be very literal as well as a deep well of ideas always springing up.
For example... "Avoid rather than Check" Icarus, you did this when you calmed your breathing. You could have muttered some choice words that would have "blocked" or "stunted" what someone else was saying, but you avoided it and came to calmness. Image for a moment, you didn't and you actually "blocked" someone with your words spurred on by anger... they would Check right back feeling defensive. You then would either back down or follow the darker path.
There are other examples... ones where you are the victim. I believe a Woman should Maim rather than Kill when in a rape situation. but there are times.. like in times of war that killing becomes needful. I hope and pray we Jedi need not be in that situation any time soon.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:43:22 GMT -5
Originally posted by Icarus
LDS_Jedi wrote: An excellent interpretation. Very similar to my own.
There are other examples... ones where you are the victim. I believe a Woman should Maim rather than Kill when in a rape situation. but there are times.. like in times of war that killing becomes needful. I hope and pray we Jedi need not be in that situation any time soon.
I assume that you mean "maim" here so that the rapist is ummm... "out of commission" for a while??? That way they can still seek treatment and live a normal life?
I'm not sure where I stand on that one. Maybe it would be more merciful to kill in this particular situation.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:44:20 GMT -5
Originally posted by Jinsei
From a man's point of view, if he's trying to rape someone, then maiming is what he deserves. Death wouldn't really be a punishment in my opinion, because it's over fast. If he finds himself unable to repeat the act in the future, then he'll have the rest of his life to consider the consequences of his actions.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:45:11 GMT -5
Originally posted by LDS_Jedi
Icarus, I can see where you may be coming from. I look at the issue of rape as a crime based in power and control.
If you kill someone who is willing to violate another to gain power and control, then you have not solved the issue. But, you maim them and to such a degree that they are now reliant on someone else... you have removed the power/control and wounded them beyond the escape of death.
We are not able to judge who shall live and who shall die. Thus, we should avoid and restrain when necessary.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:46:30 GMT -5
Originally posted by Adona Mara
The assessments I think are reasonable -- always moving from least force to what is necessary to accomplish the goal. The only caveat that I could see would be motivation. You have to know beforehand, the strength of your "peace" so that when you are pushed to it, you'll know that your motivations are correct, and you won't be justifying a greater use of force than is necessary because of anger or revenge, and not simply because the lesser amounts of force were insufficient. If you wait until you're in the middle of the difficulty, you won't have time to examine your motivations and may simply "act." That could bring about an inappropriate use of force.
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Post by Adona Mara on Feb 2, 2007 11:49:27 GMT -5
Originally posted by Hecate
Quote:
Perceive the ways of nature, for all is a cycle, all is inteconnected, nothing is separate or apart from you. Move like nature, move like water, go around, flow towards and away. Be patient, see the signs, the opportunities, the lessons. Oddly, sometimes stepping back from a force can cause it to fall and fail. It is not always the most apparently strong who win.
Trust. Observe the tiny shoot growing through a crack in the path. Be like the shoot. Observe the cycle of nature. Life always returns.
Flow with the Force and no force is required at all.
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