Contents quoted:
Obi.One:
"Is this forum going to close???
I just look up there a post saying financial aid needed and that probably this forum is going to shut down...
I don't know how many of you know about, or are member of the, United Jedi forum, but this other one I think is definitly going to close in the next few days..
So, what's the deal? 'Commander Cody execute order sixty-six' or what?
I know there is more jedi communities around there, but this might start a Domino effect, not to say that I though this specific forum is the most active and the pruporse of this other one, United Jedi, was among the noblest.
Regards"
Myrrden:
"Hello there,
The site is indeed closing, but it's not because the site itself failed, but more related to a lack of funding. The owner of the site is currently unemployed and has spent some time in the hospital recently, so he cannot afford to pay for another year to keep it up and going.
Over the past few years, the online Jedi Community has definitely been breaking apart. There have been some attempts to mend the rifts, but they've all been met with resistence. The problem is that some people see Jedi as being a Philosophy, others a Religion, others part of their religion. Some want to have a dedicated Order, while others want being a Jedi to be equal to calling onself a Christian, Muslim, etc... that belief is all it takes to be a Jedi. Some want to focus more on martial arts, others more on the mystical side of the Force. Some focus on the Light/Dark division of the Force, others believe in the Potentium view. Add to that ten years of politics, wannabe dictators/masters/etc. and newbies who show up and believe that since they've watched all six movies they must be a Jedi Master, or at least a Jedi Knight... and it all boils down to a crumbling community.
Very few sites are able to hold together for very long, because they seek to control everything that their members do. So, their members rebel and leave the site, starting up their own site, and generally repeating the cycle over time. Some sites that broke off from another site have managed to stay peaceful and productive, but that's usually due to a small number of core members.
It's a shame that you've just now come to the UJ, because it was a great site in its prime, but the past two or three years it's really been slacking off. It's become plagued by spammers, arguments, politics, and a lack of activity lately. So, it came to the point that the cost of keeping the site up wasn't really enough for one or two people to pay to keep it going.
Several members have recently joined my site, Wizards of the Force -
consithian.proboards77.com , because the UJ has a limited lifespan now. My best guess is that by the 31st it will be down, but it might actually go a few days before that."
Jedidiahknyte:
"Dearly Beloveds,
Yes...shutting down, it seems. Once upon a time, it was my fervent hope that the Jedi would become a real organization in the real world, like the Masons or the Boy Scouts, and I worked hard towards that goal, actively proselytizing and seeking out those interested in becoming Jedi. For three years I wore the tunic and robe any time I went out in public, even to work, and I made robes and mailed them to "true believers" all over the US and England. Alas, it simply did not come to pass. Still, it has been a good run, and I am a better man for having made the effort. There are still a few hard core Jedi around, perhaps there will be a Jedi Resurrection someday. I still foresee tough times coming, and part of my effort was directed towards finding a Jedi Refuge for us to weather the storm, and changed my whole life in order to make that a reality...so here I am, up in Appalachian Virginia, establishing a stronghold in the mountains for people who, in all likelihood, will never come. My involvement with on-line Jedi organizations goes back to the days of Jediism, but when this site closes, it will be the end of my posting with the persona of jedidiahknyte. But, as a young friend of mine's moniker says, I regret nothing.
Forward.
The past is dead, the future uncertain....but as long as I'm still pushing air in and out, Jediism lives.
Hmmm...I may have just written the eulogy...
Love, Light, Faith, Hope & JOY!
jedidiahknyte :notworthy:
Image"
Obi.One:
"C'mon my fellow jedi, this is not the moment to give up. Did Master Obi-Wan and Master Yoda give up after Order 66? Surely they were heartbroken, but no, they never surrender. And after some years, they built the foundations for a New Jedi Order.
This might look like our most darkest hour, but it's also our moment of most clairvoyance. I think I know what's going on here, let me explain.
Back in the early 90's with the massification of Internet, the first jedi communities began to show up. I can remeber, for example, Force Academy. I visited they frontal webpage regulary, but never there was so much activity to say. I never joined their forum, but it is a sure bet it was also pretty quiet too.
But then nearly the end of the century something happened, something big.- You know what I'm talking about: The Prequels. The Star Wars Rise of the Empire trilogy put SW again in mouth of everyone. So suddenly all these communities began to grow, their members numbered hundreds. All kind of half serious jokes also were at the order of the day: England, Australia and New Zeland census, NYC Jedi lighsaber sparring group, etc...
And the worst. Dozens of new jedi communities showed up. Between all this struggle, problems with its leaders, masters, knights, tenets, doctrines, was something to hope for.
But has been more than four years since the last Star Wars movie. Now we are back to the beggining. The last Star Wars fever has cooled down. Most of the people come back to their 'common sense' and realized the jedi knights and the whole Star Wars isn't really that great.
So, the last of us who remain in here are indeed the true loyals to the cause. This is the very moment in which we can truly start the building of a true Jedi Order.
No more debate, no more arguing, no more reflection. No need of planning with people whom the jedi fashion was just that, a trend. We have ripped off them. Now the galaxy will know the Jedi live!"
Myrrden:
"Those of us who considered ourselves to be Jedi, or at least training in the ways of the Force, before the prequels came out, are actually still around for the most part. Sure, the prequels brought in a rush of new members with each new movie and cartoon series, but for the most part these were people who wanted the fiction to be real, while remaining based on fiction. They wanted to be able to do things that simply aren't realistic in life. Or, worse, they logged on and saw themselves as playing a game.
As for starting the building of a 'true Jedi Order' we're years into that. If you've read the fiction, then you know that even they started off as a philosophical group. That's been established, even though it's in small groups around the world.
There will always be debates, because everyone has their own ideas, which after many years still haven't been boiled down to truly reflect the Jedi when they're all included. Arguing is an option, but reflection is always needed. If you set out without taking time to reflect on things, then you end up with a goal that is inflexible and a path that is as wide as thread to get there.
A big problem with bring the Jedi into the real world is actually deciding what a 'real Jedi' is. How does it convert? Who is and isn't a Jedi? What real-world training do the Jedi have to have or is it all optional? etc...
I've seen the Jedi Community through new eyes, even refreshed eyes, and have been as hopeful and enthusiastic as you seem to be. But, let's be realistic and accept that not everyone who is in the Community is interested in actually developing a community that doesn't follow their blueprint for it, with them in control of it, or at least as a member of the council in charge. In the past, there have been groups that formed and declared themselves to be the Council and made every attempt to dictate how the other sites would operate, including using their memberships on discussion forums to tell others what "The Council" has decided. It's never worked out very well. Attempts have been made to merge the different sites together, but old rivalries and rumors quickly begin to corrupt the efforts, because Group A will work with Group B, but not Group C, Group D doesn't like Group B, and Group E won't work with any of them but want to pretend to in an effort to keep them from forming one large group, then Group F wants all of the rest to work together but only if they work under its control. In the process, Group G and Group H are formed. Group G wants to work on a new way to merge the groups. Group H no longer has interest in being Jedi, but simply being a Force Follower Community. Before all is said and done, Group A is under new leadership, Group B has lost all good standing in the communities, Group C has disappeared, and Group D has decided it will no longer work with other groups, Group E is satisfied, Group F has faded into obscurity, and the cycle begins again within a year."
Jedidiahknyte:
"Dearly Beloveds,
Don't misunderstand...this humble one is in no way "giving up".....I will be Jedi from now on....I do realize, however, that this Path is not for everyone.
True Jedi are few and far between. It's not a role-playing game. There is far more to being a Jedi than just saying "I am a Jedi."
I am satisfied that I know "what is a Jedi." I am also certain that I could never successfully train someone to be a Jedi through an on-line experience. As I have said many, many times, "You can't learn to swim without getting wet."
I am here, and I am Jedi. This site may expire, and one day so shall I...but until then, I remain, and, as I remain, so does the concept of real life Jedi.
I think not that I am the only one. The "idea" of Jedi is in the world now.
There will always be at least a few "True Jedi"....and that too is true to the ideal, as among all the citizens of the Universe, only a few were fit to be Jedi.
Love, Light, faith, Hope & JOY!
jed :clown:"
Lilly-Tenshine:
"If anyone wants to contact me please feel free. I feel like I have some freinds here even if I wasn't around as much as others where. Yet please contact me with the info below.
MSN: lilly_dar_khel@hotmail.com
YIM: ohara_ami
AIM: lillytenshine
Skype: LillyTenshine"
Obi.One:
"Of course, of course.. of course there must be arguing, debate and reflection, but only in between the ones of us that are left. I want to think that much of the fighting and misunderstood between jedi groups over the last few year was due the rush of members brought by the prequels.
I know these are hard words specially for someone who has just showed up. But has drove me crazy come back to the jedi scene and find dozen of sites, most of them deserted and disconnected with others.
Now, it is impossible and wrong to attempt to unite all the jedi groups at once. Even in fiction, there were always all over the galaxy different jedi groups, temples, enclaves, and all sort of masters dispersed all over with different traditions, training methods, and focuses.
We are pretty much at that point as you said, and it's a very good thing, 'casue if one group will focus on martial arts, and you don't feel comfortable with you can always go to the group that focus on personal and ethical growth. But what is completly wrong is that groups remain disconnected or even worst, curse each other.
Again, as you mentioned, probably the main reason behind this is that, even after more than 30 years, we_still_have_been_unable_to_define_what_exactly_is_a_jedi_in_non_fiction.
I even saw a not very old post down there asking for the 'true jedi'.
So I guess we should start with that before anything else."
Myrrden:
""What is a Jedi?" and "Defining a Jedi!"
Two topics that seems to appear every three months or so, they're part of the cyclical changes of the community. It's been tried many, many times and each time takes about a month of arguing before people drop the subject for a couple of months. I know, you're probably thinking this is pretty cynical of me to say, but I've been around the online community for 12 years now, and it has never failed to happen. Unfortunately, the UJ doesn't have enough life in it to try and bring those two topics up here, because they'd run out of time and be left unsettled, no matter which way it went.
As for the politics that tended to ruin things through arguments and whatnot, those tend to come more from the older members who claimed the title of Jedi years before the prequels. Granted, newer members who don't stick around long, really don't help the arguments when they come out in public, but they're not always the problem.
See, there's usually a clear division between the groups...
There are the Jedi Monk-type. They watched the original movies, saw Obi-Wan and Yoda as representatives of what a Jedi is, and used that as their model. They don't really care if people see it as a religion, philosophy, etc. They live their lives in accordance with their views of the Force and their own religion. They focus more on the mystical side of the Force and learn to use its power for times when it is needed.
There are the Jedi Spy-type. These are the ones who watched Luke go from being a farmboy to wearing all black and declaring himself to be a Jedi, with very little training under his belt, but what he had was really crammed in there to make it count. These people tend to want to be the classic hero, training in martial arts and saving people. There's usually very little of the 'Monk' in them. They also tend to not view the Force as a religion, but more as a tool that is available to them.
There are the Qui-Gons. These people use Qui-Gon as their model. They want to know enough about fighting to be able to handle themselves, but prefer to be able to talk their way out of a fight. They're the ones who want to live in the moment and help others as often as they can, while constantly trying to be the peace keepers. They usually see the Force as being God and as such view it completely as a religion, which allows us to use its power to do the most good.
There are the Jedi Knights. These are the people who want to do whatever it takes to be a Jedi Knight as depicted in the prequels. Usually they just claim the title for themselves and accept it. They like to focus far more on martial arts, but will mix in the mystical aspect of it when it suits their needs. They're usually the ones arguing about what training a Jedi requires, while at the same time saying that no one is qualified to train a Jedi, because no one's been trained by a Jedi. So, the most common solution is that they have to declare themselves to be a Jedi Knight, that way their Apprentices will be trained by an actual Jedi.
Then, we have the Jedi Masters. They show up one day, lay down a list of their achievements, most of which are too good to be true (and usually are), they brag a lot about themselves, and declare that they've been a Jedi Master for (insert number over 5 here) years. From there, they usually go in one of two directions. The first is that they're here and they're playing an RPG. They're quickly proven to be a fake and they disappear, never to be heard of. The second is that they actually believe themselves to be a Jedi Master and they suddenly want to be the person in charge. If they ever end up in charge, they want people to pretty much bow to what they say. In the end, they're disgraced and they lash out at the community, calling everyone fakes and liars, and claiming that they're the only Jedi Master ever. If they leave, they may pop back in occasionally under new accounts and will attack individual threads with whatever they can find to point out.
Of course, there are variants and exceptions to those, but that pretty much wraps up the Jedi... not including the Gray, Shadow, Sith, etc. However, each group tends to have some of all of them, which causes a problem when trying to define a Jedi for an individual group. Add to that, the problem of there being groups that are trying to completely and totally demand that everyone accept their definition, and the fighting continues.
Me, personally, I'm more of the Jedi Monk-type. I don't really care what people think the Force is, but I have my own views and my own training, which generally doesn't match up with anyone elses. I'm comfortable with that and comfortable being in a community of people who, rather than wanting to argue and complain, are comfortable just being a community and sharing information with each other. In time, this model will build upon itself and our children's children may be actual Jedi, with a near standardized training that uses a book and everything."
Myrrden:
"hmm... was that a conversation killer?"
Obi-One:
"No, you haven't kill the conversation yet,
just taking my time to figure out where to go from here.
Now, there is something we all gonna agree: jedi were not clones. If in real life there are the ObiWans, the Yodas, the QuiGons, the Lukes, et all... is because in fiction there was too an Obi-Wan, a Yoda, a Luke and a Qui-Gon.
These all characters were very different in between them, but something is for sure... They all were jedi. Without exception, nor question about it, both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were jedi, as much as different they might had been.
I also agree that perhaps, just as you pointed out, the most emmmm uhmmm... :?: :idea: :arrow: proper way to found the order is just as in fiction, as a philosophical, teological, scientifical, metaphisical group of discussion.
And that, my friends, I thinks solves the unsolveable.
What is a Jedi?...
A Jedi is someone who belongs to the Jedi Order
As simply as that. Do you still have enough energy to follow me into this classical debate my friends?, because I'm sure you have a lot of things to say, but I don't know if you still want to.
It might seems that I'm just translating the problem to be solved another day. But trust me, I'm going somewhere with this definition. I know it has been discussed for all over ¿thousen generation? And you probably don't wanna hear me, but I have to try."
Azoth (Empress Palpatine on this site):
"A Jedi or a Sith is a person who watched one or all of the Star Wars films and personally identifies with the views of either the Jedi or the Sith. They identify to the point of saying that those entities in the films fit more their beliefs than any other belief system.
I remember years ago when the first movie came out in 1977. I thought to myself, "I think I believe in that Force idea." That was in ancient times before internet.
Since there are different characters in the films each with their own view, there will be different kinds of Jedi or even Sith. It may be a waste of time to expect everyone to be the same. Perhaps one should strive for a loose association. That association should be able to survive board closings and be able to regroup. That is the nature of a grassroots thing. Even if the whole internet shut down, there would still be people who have those sorts of beliefs.
As a precaution, it is best to not have one's eggs all in one basket, that is, it is good to be a member of several boards in case some boards are lost."
Obi.One:
"I might be catholic and make on my own vows of chastity, poverty and obedience, yet, that doesn't make me a friar.
I might have a strong affinity and knowledge of and towards Buda's teachings, being and expert in martial arts, yet, that doesn't make me a shaolin monk.
Even in fiction, both General Dodonna and Admiral Ackbar said "May the Force be with you/us" They surely believe in that thing called the Force, they probably held in high regards jedi stuff, yet, they were not jedi.
Shall we be still here, or open a new thread? maybe even in another forum given the chances this one might close... ?"
Azoth (E.P):
"That is organized religion, but not all religion is organized. I met lots of Christians that were not members of a church. All that is required is to believe the basic gospel. I have run into solitary Wiccans, etc.
The only way to have organizational Jedi is to have an organization, but only certain ones may join it. Others may stay independent. That would be like getting all Christians to join one particular church, which would be impossible."
Myrrden:
"I actually do have a reply, but since I'm too tired to write it out right now, I'm going to refrain from it. However, should the UJ shut down, which is any day now, I invite you to continue this discussion over at Wizards of the Force, which Azoth has in her signature. It's not a Jedi or Sith site, but a Force Followers site, but pretty much any discussions are welcome there.
And, Obi, if you keep talking like this, I'm really going to enjoy our conversations... you seem rational and like someone I used to be 10 years ago, before the politics ruined my opinion of the online community. 8)"